I had an amazing experience in Sydney last Sunday. In the morning I attended and spoke at the opening of the Café at 182 Campbell St in Surrey Hills. This is all part of the 2010 project and the highlight was the Street Choir. This is made up of about 15 ‘street people’ and they were fantastic. In the evening I went to one of the big name churches. There were over 800 people there and the music, lighting etc was very professional. Of course the key question is which was more honouring to God? Both were worship, both were in a church and both focused on God! This is actually a hard question to answer without my own bias coming through. There were a few key differences though that I think point to an answer. The 2010 project was made up of people who were all at various stages of brokenness (including me) and we all knew it. We celebrated that we could meet and be honest. The strength was not in the professionalism of the service but in the real people and organic nature of the time together. We looked different from each other and everyone was free to participate.
The large church was all about winning, triumph and overcoming. The only people on the stage all looked the same (all slim, good looking, smiling people with a lot to offer). The rest of us were able to participate by giving money (I won’t go into that here but what a load of mumbo jumbo) and singing along with the experts on stage….which I have to admit the vast majority seemed to love.
I’m still thinking about it!
This entry was posted by Angry and Shallow, on
Wednesday, November 29, 2006.
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11:57 am
Do you think that the emphasis that many churches put on "winning, triumph and overcoming" is a reflection of the way many Christian people view blessings? ie: blessings = stuff.
Rather than a blessing being a space where; "We celebrated that we could meet and be honest."
Personally, I am more thankful for a space where I can meet and be honest and my participation is valued more greatly than just the dollars I bring to the table.
11:30 pm
I really can't get into that style of worship anymore, it is all too plastic for me, It doesn't connect well with me anymore...unless I want plastic that demands nothing of me.
4:41 pm
Hi all, by and large I echo the sentiments on large church, but am not sure that it is all plastic. There is something triumphal about the resurrection. And much of the triumphalistic communities tend to emphasize this aspect of the faith. Where they fail is to counterbalance the triumphalism with a theology of the cross and the experience of suffering. As usual, the answer is multi-dimentional.
Alan Hirsch
11:50 am
I have just blogged in this little piece of wisdom on my blog, but I thought it pertinent to this discussion.
Act without doing: work without effort.
Think of the small as large and the few as many.
Confront the difficult while it is still easy.
Accomplish the great task by a series of small acts.
--Lao Tze
Changes our perspectives of size eh?
5:57 pm
At the risk of going against the tide here, maybe it is not necessary to wonder which is more honouring to God. While I would have to say that I would be more at home in the worship amongst the poor, it does not mean that the larger triumphal worshippers do not love and honour God in their own way... It is more about the heart than the packaging - whether it is glam or grimy is not so critical.
12:14 pm
Like Christina and Daryl, I want to take caution before ctiquing the larger church too quickly. I have no doubt that the heart of the large church is to honor and worship God. However, something about the way the large church presents itself makes me cringe inside. Like Daryl, I find myself asking to what extent can the majority of people participate in the worship. And does the large church create levels albeit unintentionally, in levels of faith which are percieved by your professionalism in the worship? eg. those in the worship team are 'better' christians than those in the congregation because they were able to make it on the team.
12:27 pm
I went to a large church for a number of years that had the accomplished worship band, did their own cds etc, but to be honest I never felt as though they were better Christians than me, just better musicians! I knew the main worship leader personally, and she was certainly not someone that had "tickets on herself". I think it is important not view all large churches and people in them as the same. I am sure that there would have been people like those described at the church I attended, but perhaps this is more about humanity than styles of church. I reckon that in every flavour of church there will be people who will consider themselves more enlightened (yes even in the "emerging church") than others. I could never attend a big church again, and believe that writers such as Alan Hirsch are spot on in their critique of christendom and the proposed way forward. But I don't want to spend too much energy focussing on what is wrong but rather being part of something that God will work through - Kim Hammond's fave quote - the best critique of the bad is the practice of the good.
8:36 pm
Dirryl! (Sorry, couldn't help myself). Welcome to Geeksville! Great to see you here.
Um, my two cents...
Worship is not about the heart of the person. Worship always was in the minds of the Hebrews, and in the mind of God for that matter, about action.
When music was offered by Israel, whilst the Israelites were involved in using slaves to build the temple and whilst they insited on not paying fair wages, was considered an abomination to God.
We all know Romans 12. Give your lives to God as a living sacrifice. For us, that means our careers, or consumer choice, our vote, the whole kit and kaboodle. If that is not offered, you can sing the nicest songs in the the world, but do not call it worship.
My understanding from the gospels is that if people are playing at religion that does not shape behaviour, that is called idolatry. It is an abomination.
The excuse that God is concerned with what is going on in the heart of the individual is simply not true.
The one time that Jesus makes it very clear about who gets in and who doesn't, does not involve reflection on what is in the persons heart. It is very much a series of questions regarding how we treat the least in this world.
Now here is the rub, this has nothing to do with the size of the church. I know big churches (with big music getups) that have regard for the least, and I know cool hip emerging churches that don't give a rip.
Again, nothing to do with heart, or size! Action.
And don't go quoting me Luther and Paul unless you want me to quote you Jesus and James right back at you!
12:21 am
Now think about the whole concept of worshiping God.
God is so incomplete he needs to create little creatures that worship Him? What's more, those engaged in this act of worship think it's having some effect on God?
Hello? But isn't this slightly more than a little ridiculous?
Idiots.
12:40 am
You bring in an interesting point Stephen. I agree with you that worship is about action. However, one can do the right things from wrong motivation - the old whitewashed tomb scenario. I am not sure that heart and action in worship should be seen as opposed. Having your "heart in the right place" but not lifting a finger to act on it is inadequate. On the other hand, all the good deeds in the world will not cancel out selfish motivations, and I would suggest taint an "offering of worship" as much as the former.
11:40 am
Thanks all for the comments. There are a number of thoughts that come to mind but the first is that we have to unpack what we mean by the words we use. Most are a reflection of our own values and behaviours that we project into the meaning of the words. Worship is a classic. Usually in the west it means something we enjoy. I can't help but think it should gbe asked does God enjoy it (In asmuch as God enjoys as we understand the term...David I think you are partly right!). Therefore when a church has a worship service who is it aimed at? I would contend it is usually aimed at making the people that attend feel good and is often nothing more than a marketing excercise!
Like
wise Triumphalism...we in the self centred, self focused west see it winning so we are on top...be it financially, relationships, stuff etc. I would contend that in part the triumph of the resurection is focused on the rights of the ppr and oppressed to be fed, housed and free and we as the people of the resurection are to work towards this which will ultimately be found in the heaven.
There are many examples of how we misuse words for our won ends and I think that many of the large churches and christian movements reinforce this...often overtly and often subtly as the medium really is the message.